Workforce is talking about the Paycheck Fairness Act. You can make up your mind on your own for where you stand. As for me? I’m honestly a bit ignorant on the specifics of the legislation. Sorry to be a total dud… but as I begin pondering it all, here’s where my mind begins drifting…
The way some folks talk about pay inequity makes it seem as if (1) some candidates are inherently
better at and more likely to negotiate their salary (the white male in the Workforce article’s scenario) and (2) some HR pros or hiring managers will and do give in to said candidates and then perhaps "low ball" others who don’t negotiate up (the black female in that same scenario). When I step back and think about this, it seems that in some ways, we’ve got a communication problem on our hands and more specifically, it’s the effect culture has on one’s communication style. Let me speak from a personal standpoint and keep going on this one.
Me? A Korean-American gal. How I was raised? Well, my family is Korean first and foremost, and Confucianism deeply permeates Korean culture. There are influences on morality, societal norms, relationship models, family structure… or simply put, on culture. There’s that deeply embedded sense of obedience and respect to elders or authority figures. Modesty and humility are praised characteristics. And then there’s that whole collectivist attitude where conflict, competition, and self-serving behaviors are discouraged. Now translate that into the workplace!
A performance review of mine that sticks out greatly… a few years into the HR world, I had gone through a ginormous ATS conversion. My manager felt I had a lot to be proud of but as for areas of improvement, there was one little thing. She wanted me to start taking more credit and share more openly my ideas and accomplishments. I still remember her exact words. "You need to talk more about what you do and how you do it in staff meetings."
The thought of what she asked of me made me squirm. In my head, it was like she was encouraging me to be that kid in grade school who sat in the front of the class always with their hand up in the air when the teacher asked a question squealing, "Me! Me! I know the answer." I have never been that kid nor have I ever really liked that kid. I was never raised to brag, I was never encouraged to boast. In fact, instances where I might have been a little too proud? I got into big trouble. So, to my manager, I had to explain that what she was asking of me felt like self-promotion… and I wasn’t sure I could do it, because culturally, I just wasn’t raised in that vein.
I can’t and won’t make sweeping generalizations about groups of people. I have seen this same theme in others though. In interviews – the ultimate place to sell yourself? There are definitely candidates from similar cultures to mine who have a hard time putting the spotlight on themselves. They may also say "we" all the time in place of "I" because collectivism is deeply rooted in them. Or when offering a job… perhaps the candidate won’t or can’t negotiate because wouldn’t that be pushing back on an elder or authority figure? And out of respect for that figure, they might assume they are getting the fair and just offer, and that the decision maker behind the offer is using their wisdom to craft a package that is deserved.
So, for us who are pondering the Paycheck Fairness Act, what does any of my story mean? Decide what you may on the legislation, but in the meantime, think about this:
• Let’s not low ball candidates when making offers. Come with your best on the first shot, as the negotiation game is silly. Not all people can or will negotiate.
• Dig deep with candidates and be cognizant of cultural factors that might affect their communication style. Educate your hiring managers and interviewers to do the same too.
After all… Confucius says by nature, men are nearly alike; by practice, they get to be wide apart.
I think you’re exactly right when you say “it’s the effect culture has on one’s communication style.” It’s so effortless for some people to put the spotlight on themselves, while others feel they are boasting…and it’s largely a result of how they were taught they were “supposed to” act. It’s a shame that people get paid better than their equally-experienced colleagues simply because they’re better at selling themselves. I’d love to see if the PFA succeeds in putting those who aren’t so good at it (but just as qualified, hard-working, etc.) back on equal ground…
Jessica:
Great post … and point. I agree that cultural influences and communication styles/preferences are a definite contributing factor to the gender wage gap. As HR professionals, we have a responsibility to oversee pay decisions to ensure – as you suggest – that these factors are not leading to outcomes which could be construed as (and may in fact be) discriminatory.
As women, and as people who would strive to eliminate the pay gap, we also need to address the underlying cultural and communication factors that are contributing to this issue. The McKinsey Quarterly has a great article on “How Talented Women Thrive” which highlights the dimensions of leadership that are particularly important for women to embrace in order to thrive – to be noticed and rewarded in relation to their contribution.
http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/centered_leadership_how_talented_women_thrive_2193
Thanks for sharing your perspective on all of this!
mary, thanks for your note. it’s an interesting discussion isn’t it? because if you define culture broadly, it goes beyond ethic background and there are many others (not asian, not female!) who may have been taught they were “supposed to” act this way or that way, as you say… i think it puts an onus on HR peeps to do their best and really cut through the bull and do what they can to ensure equity.
ann! thanks for your thoughts and thanks for the mckinsey article. i’ll definitely have a read. i wonder if you saw the article in WSJ recently about women in HR being paid less than their male counterparts… even for ourselves it seems there is a gap and we aren’t doing the best job of ensuring equity amongst genders. sigh…
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122462820367156127.html
Jessica !!
Very nice article.
That is good to go in detail of a candidate, his cultural mix etc… but when it comes to experienced candidates sometime or even manytimes we check upon their selling skills, how effective they are in delivering their ideas. In such situation it can directly affect their productivity as a team member/leader. So I’ve seen the cases when the person who sells well get better oprotunity.
Rahul!! Thanks for swinging by. You raise a really great point and it’s something definitely to consider because you’re absolutely right – in some situations, it’s vitally important for one to be able to negotiate and sell as a part of their job.
Contracts for your company, pricing for customers or clients, in my case negotiate salaries, negotiate on timelines/deadlines… I think we can agree though that there’s some kind of middle ground though, yeah? I also think it’s quite plausible that one might be able to do for others what they cannot do for themselves if that makes sense. It might go against what I’ve said, I haven’t thought this through completely… but sometimes you can sell things not attached to yourself a bit easier because it’s less personal.
Good point you raise… thanks for visiting!
Jessica -
It’s a good post, and an interesting middle ground that HR pros have to find themselves in related to this topic. People who barter hard get more, regardless of protected class.
But there’s a reality to what Rahul says. Mary hopes the PFA does the work for those who can’t or won’t drive for a harder bargain. That’s fine. But Rahul’s absoutely right when he says that the same skills we’re discounting through the PFA are the ones that can have a lot of value within the job the candidate lands in.
How many times did you negotiate today? I just counted and came up with four. And if I didn’t do it, I would have been tire-tracked and ended up with poor results.
That’s a learned skill over time. Like you and I talked about recently, I came from VERY private parents – you didn’t ask others for things, you made do with what you had. That’s my family, and it gave me some great qualities to be successful with in life.
Downside – I used to have trouble asking for a drink refill at dinner. It’s been awhile since I was like that, but can you imagine? No chance I would have negotiated on salary 10 years ago.
And I would have gotten run over in my job.
At the end of the day, government isn’t the answer. Strong hiring managers, recruiters and HR pros who can figure out what’s real and reward it accordingly are the solution.
KD
Many articles have suggested that Women in the workforce get paid less than others for one reason and one reason only. . . . they simply don’t ask for as much as Male counterparts. Based on Jessica’s post—that could also be the case (generally speaking) in the race cultures as well. It is interesting. . . . I am an HR professional and have volunteered at my church to be a part of an extensive priest search process. This phenomena seems to have reached beyond secular walls and into the most holy of holy jobs. . . for I am noticing the female priest applicants with equal experience levels to their male counterparts simply asking for less. The ladies have not even been thrown brownie points by The Almighty for doing his work! It’s a head scratcher.
Could it be due to cultural issues. . . perhaps. Could it be due to confidence issues. . . perhaps. Could it be due our species centuries-worth conditioning inside of women-less workforces. . . .perhaps.
Could it be due to women starting their careers acceping low salaries and finding it difficult to catch up since they started low. . . perhaps!
No matter the reason. . . I fear it will be years before Corporate Entities will make first salary/ job offers their best and most lucritive offers. WE are in a free market still. . and if supply outweights demand. . my CEO will want me to get the most for the least. I personally like the Carmax no haggle approach. Even the word Haggle sounds scary. As an HR Manager—I would LOVE to save time (which does save money ironically) by limiting the negotiation game. In the long run. . . It could even be productivity booster. . .
Until that time. . . I suggest applicants take control of their destiny. Research their worth, have faith in themselves and go for the high end of the spectrum. If they don’t take care of themselves. . .no one else will. And hey. . if it’s working for men. . .
Jessica-
I really appreciate your post; it’s a thoughtful and real correction to the earlier post on the Paycheck Fairness Act, that read as though candidates who did not negotiate effectively didn’t deserve pay equity. We really do need to check what are biases are about what ‘effective’ negotiation (really) means. cvh
KD – you know, something that i came to the realization to about 4 years ago was that if i was raised culturally to be one way but in the business world it didn’t jive + to be successful i might have to act another way… it wasn’t necessarily compromising myself to act the “other” way, different from how i was raised.
this was quite a struggle because i thought 1) perhaps i was being fake if i acted differently (asked for more, upped my negotiation and selling skills, boasted and shared proudly of my accomplishments, etc…) and 2) i wondered was part of the problem that the “western” ideal for “leadership” and corresponding traits or competencies for success were one sided? were people disrespectful and discounting that other people may come from other cultures and that there are different ways to accomplish the same goals?
i’ve been able to find a balance. i’ve accepted that who i may have to be in the workplace and during the day might be just a role, and they just might be rules to the game i play during the day because i’ve chosen to partake in a certain game… but it doesn’t define who i am, and i can be my true self when i get home and in my personal life. i’m okay with this now… but it wasn’t always comfortable and it took some sage wisdom from a mentor as well for me to get to this place.
just some additional thoughts on this matter…
Dawn (and KD too!) – i probably am coming to the place, like Kris Dunn and others who have written on this topic, that government isn’t the answer to the issue of pay inequity. we do need strong hiring managers, recruiters and HR pros who will be part of the solution… but just as you point out, this is a pretty complex issue when you add in culture norms, sometimes ethnicity and issues of race, and sometimes gender norms and then add in all the history behind this problem including conditioning… there’s not an easy answer for this issue. thanks for taking the time to leave your thoughts. i appreciate it and appreciate the insights you brought as an HR pro and also from the p.o.v. of your church work – that’s fascinating!
Such a great post followed by insightful comments.
Sounds like a real conundrum. As Jessica points out, this is a pretty complex issue. Maybe the answer falls more into the realm of individual responsibility for the task at hand. If the hiring manager, recruiter, candidate, employee, etc. consistently did their part, would we see change?
My perspectives tend to be a bit philosophical but I can’t help but think that there is almost something easier about naming a group and saying they should do more of one thing and less of another when in the end, it’s the individual in any one of these roles contributing to a larger perception.
I also agree government intervention isn’t necessarily the answer. I think more of an emphasis needs to be placed on helping people connect to a desirable outcome and feeling empowered to do what it takes to achieve the goal.
Great string of comments, Jessica – you’d prompted a good discussion. I agree with others that it’s a complicated topic.
On the one hand, I am strongly inclined to the viewpoint that those who want to earn more must choose fields and professions that pay well … and be willing to stand up for themselves when negotiating compensation. On the other hand, I think it behooves us as HR professionals to be more watchful for and active in situations of potential pay inequity, as Jessica suggests. Why? Because too “laissez-faire” an attitude here brings things like the Paycheck Fairness Act to our doorstep (and soon, potentially, into our offices). Given the choice between being a bit proactive in the cause of pay equity or having the government regulate my company’s pay decisions to ensure I do so (according to its byzantine rules), I’d prefer the former. Unfortunately, I fear that choice may soon be taken from us. And I fear that many HR pros and leaders have no idea what might be about to hit them.
Confucio was a brilliant and smart guy and this quotation you mention here it is very wise in many aspects, but I cannot talk about all those aspects right now