So you’ve just worked through 2 years of performing discounted cash flows to evaluate a current buyout offer, you now know more about John Nash (and his famed equilibrium pertaining to Game Theory) than George Washington himself, and you’ve even presented arguments both for and against your own ethical stances in regards to corporate and social responsibility. In fact, you’ve read through so many business cases and textbooks that it might be a decade before you can ever consider reading for pleasure again. Yep, you’ve earned your MBA and you’re ready to put it to work for HR and Internal Recruiting.
Not so fast, my Friend. There’s a little known secret in the MBA world — If you’ve earned an MBA, the probability of you gaining a position in HR or Internal Recruiting is slim to none. Let me further clarify, however: I’m referring to the person who falls into one of the following categories:
- You already have business experience at the unit level, and decided to pursue an MBA to round out your skill sets. In other words, “You were born a business person first.”
- You went straight from your Undergraduate Degree to your Masters, meaning you have no tangible business experience to date. In other words, “You weren’t born a business person first, but you decided to pursue a Masters in Business.”
Both are recipes for a big-ole, ‘Rejected’ stamp across the top of your online application. In other words, the business professionals exempt from this little known secret are those who start out within HR. That’s right – if you’re looking to consider pursuing a career in HR or Corporate Recruiting, an MBA can be a kiss of death.
But “Why?”, one might ask . . . and honest answers are hard to come by. The most candid one I’ve ever received came from a Sr V.P. of Organizational Development at one of the world’s largest publicly traded firms two weeks ago. It went a little something like this:
“Josh, the reason for this phenomenon is actually quite simple. It all starts with the VP (or Director) and their own educational profile. In my experience, it’s quite rare to find line-HR (or Recruiting) professionals who have educational pedigrees equal to or greater than the VP or Director. The line-HR (and Recruiting) Pros’ take their cues from the VP or Director, and most are doing what they can to minimize any ‘rocking of the boat’, especially in today’s economy. Ultimately, those of us at the Sr. VP or C-level cannot skirt responsibility for the leadership we bring into our HR and Talent Acquisition units. The irony is that it’s this very prejudice that limits my own talent pool to pick from in the first place, so it’s somewhat of a self-reinforcing loop of mediocrity.”
This leads me to ask the FOT Nation: If you earned an MBA and wanted a shot at a career in HR (or Corporate Recruiting, or Organizational Development, etc.), would you omit the MBA on your resume?
I’m beginning to think this might be the best strategy . . . only to bring awareness of this fact later through your developing of relationships with the Business Managers and Directors with whom you consult. At least at this point, you’ll be able to have some deeper business conversations with the Managers and Directors, while ridding yourself of the discriminatory stigma an MBA currently holds if you’re applying for a position in HR.
JT,
I keep it on, for the simple fact I don’t want to work for an organization that doesn’t value I might add some value to the HR organization with my business background – but that’s just me.
The irony of your post, for me, is I get asked almost weekly by individuals who want to get into HR and/or recruiting who ask me the question – should I get my master’s in HR, or MBA. I always tell them MBA.
Good Post.
Interesting post, however as someone who has placed numberous MBA into HR and recruiting (I’ve even hired several, however understand in recruiting I don’t use education as a criteria or deciding factor, I want to see sales skills), so I’m surprised to be reading this. Is there data to support this or is it a perception? Just curious.
Hopefully fate directed me to read this post today. I was just thinking about getting my MBA over the next few years (I recently joined an organization that actually didn’t cut their tuition reimbursement program). I’ll admit, I was torn between and MBA and earning an HR certification (PHR, SPHR, etc), mostly because I already earned a post-graduate degree a few years ago, in HR. My thought process was simple – an MBA couldn’t hurt right? Guess not. My family and bank account thank you kindly.
I am surprised by this as well. I have a finance background, ended up as a TPR and now manage a talent and development function. I asked the same question Tim references to several senior level HR people inside and outside of my organization, and all of them told me to get the MBA over a Master’s in HR, OD, etc.
Sounds like the point Tim is making is that HR leadership exhibiting myopic hiring practices (i.e., I’m not going to hire anyone better educated/more experienced that myself) leads to “a self-reinforcing loop of mediocrity”…We want that “seat at the table”, but we’re not willing to pony up what it takes to get there, or to behave like real leaders in the process.
Sad reflection, don’t you think??
The Harvard Business Review had a great piece on this in July 2008: Why Did We Ever Go Into HR?
What if you are going for a director or VP of HR position? Of what use is the MBA or graduate degree then?
I’m sorry but I totally disagree with this post. Actually, it kind of frustrates me when reading this.
On one side, we promote education and require that degree. Yet on the other, that very same idea can mean the kiss of death? It is completely absurb if the reason you’re not pursuing a higher degree just because you don’t want to “rock the boat”. If that’s the case, that type of organization is definitely not the place where you can develop your career.
I’m someone who’s almost down with the MBA degree and I happen to fall into the second category. I went straight from undergrad to my MBA while still maitining to work FT. Now, I understand that I might not get management positions right away due to my lack of experience. However, if I am rejected just because the hiring manager is feeling inferior to my degree than that’s his/her own insecurity. I’m not going to hide the fact that I have an MBA. It’s one of my achievements that I’m proud of.
Here we are talking about smart hiring and the right way to recruit, yet I can’t believe that this stigma about higher education still exists.
Companies that recruit mbas for fast track HR positions/rotations: GE, Honeywell, American Express, P&G, General Mills, Microsoft, Cisco, HP, Bank of America, Citigroup, Amazon, Dell, etc. etc. Yeah the MBA must be a kiss of death…
I agree with Ryan–ridiculous post. While there may be some HR leaders who are foolish enough to avoid hiring MBA’s to soothe their insecurities, the majority of the Fortune 100 hires MBA’s into fast track HR leadership programs because they recognize the value of having someone with business acumen interfacing with the line leaders. The only kiss of death is paying attention to near-sighted posts like this. Stamp your MBA on the resume and get a job.
While I agree with Ryan’s comment this may depend on the quality of the MBA program you choose. With lesser known, online, or degree mill type institutions the MBA holds less value. The big companies are attracted to certain schools who provide good candidates. Often these schools have more stringent requirements, have better rankings, and alumni networks. They are also known for their ability to produce HR talent. I think a quality MBA is a great choice as it helps you to not only gain an education but access to a network that will get you that great HR/OD job. In the long run a business education allows HR to move to the next level and should be welcome.
All, I understand this is a somewhat controversial post. Trust me
The goal is for us to discuss this; not that any single one of us is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ in all cases. In fact, our purview is shaped by our own personal experiences (and the experiences of those around us). Some reflections emanate from a sector standpoint (i.e. Tech-based firm versus Mfg-based firm), a geographic standpoint (i.e. NE vs. Mid-West), a gender standpoint, age standpoint, etc.
Data on something like this would be quite tough to gather. The question we’d be looking to answer is what % of candidates with MBAs’ were passed over. As you can imagine, it would be a very tough stat to ‘accurately’ gauge.
By the way, I don’t think you necessarily disagree with the post, but I can sense it frustrates you. Be proud of your MBA and put your energy to good use – tell your interviewer why and how it will help you in your role!
Tim, I completely agree with you – I’d recommend the MBA over the Masters in HR. “Getting the job” might be a little harder, but in the long run, it is likely the best choice.
Puf, this is just a perception based on my own experiences. That certainly doesn’t make my experience the standard by any means
Amanda, please don’t use this blog post (or any single blog post) to decide on whether to pursue an MBA or not! Just keep it in your back pocket for an additional perspective – there are too many individual factors to make a sweeping generalization about whether to pursue an MBA or not. Drop me a line and I’ll connect you to some HR Pros in the sector you’re in and/or are targeting post-graduation.
Rob, your comment gives me hope that the MBA isn’t a kiss of death. I imagine (it’s my perception) that the pedigree of those recommending the MBA are likely MBAs themselves! (Funny how that works, right?) This points to the point of the VP referenced in the above post.
Heather, good point. Between you and I, I see a shift in conversation from “gaining a seat at the table” to actually “having a voice at the table.” You have to have one to have the other, so our industry looks to be making very positive progress
Landon, GREAT HBR article! Harvard MBAs’ going into HR is definitely not the norm. This speaks to the strides our industry is making.
David, to your question, “What if you are going for a director or VP of HR position? Of what use is the MBA or graduate degree then?” It is my belief that you’re more inclined to have a ‘voice at the table’ because the other table members are more inclined to listen. HR has an interesting perspective and if you can earn the other member’s respect and appreciation, you’re leagues ahead.
Novice-HR, I agree with you. We both pursued an MBA while working f/t. I never had the ‘traditional college experience’ (as I finished my undergrad when I left the service). I share your frustration about educational stigmas . . . more than you know. It’s why I bait open discussion about the matter.
Ryan, you’re correct that the juggernaut companies you reference do have fast-track programs with the MBA as the entering criteria. However, not all companies recruit MBAs for HR roles (or fast-track roles within HR). The majority of organizations in the U.S. (and globally) are not F500 . . . and further, not all the F500 have fast-track HR opportunities for recent MBAs’. In fact, fast-track opportunities for MBAs entering HR are the exception, not the norm. So for those firms, it’s not the ‘kiss of death’ . . . but again, we’re discussing the exception and not the norm.
Mike, the point of this post is to discuss the topic. What you view to be near-sighted is less about this post and more about the reality I’m presenting. In that sense, I fully agree it’s near-sighted . . . and the only way we can change it is to recognize the elephant in the room. As with my response to Ryan, we cannot take purely the F100 and assume that the other 99% of organizations in the world act the same as the F100. The F100 is the exception and not the norm.
Thanks to everyone for the comments and let’s keep the discussion going.
Great to see the author responding to posts–well done. I think the reactions to the article come as a result of the sweeping generalizations you make. Even the phrase “kiss of death” sends the wrong message. The tone of your response to Amanda would have served the original post well. Frame the discussion in terms of being judicious about which degree will best serve your career goals and align with your target companies. I respect your opinion, but still think that the post is near-sighted and paints an incomplete picture. What you call “a reality” is really only half the story.
Mike, as you know, we push the envelope here at FOT. If someone is looking for a blog with the audio of Kumbaya playing in the background, this isn’t the place for that
Healthy debate is a good thing – and you don’t always get that without ruffling some feathers (i.e. hence the “kiss of death” or any other terms that lead us to visualize beyond our comfort zone).
You and I may disagree that the F100 isn’t the norm for MBA-love within HR, and that’s ok. The last thing our industry needs is more groupthink and toy-soldier agreement on every topic.
As of today, my “reality” includes people in HR for the F100 . . . all the way down to the true HR hustler wearing 75 hats at the 500-person firm. In that sense, I’m not apologizing for ruffling a feather or two – frankly, we need a few ruffled if we’re going to continue to drive much needed change.
Josh, I appreciate the response. I’m not looking for Kumbaya, just something that is more representative of reality. You are absolutely right that the F100 or 500 is not representative of the realities of HR everywhere, but my issue is that you chose not to represent the other side–so some of the posts filled the void. If you are going to “push the envelope” and ruffle feathers then you’ve got to expect the feedback from your readers to do the same.
Thanks for the discussion.
I would suggest that an HR person that can’t respect privacy is the kiss of death.
Joshua the real question to me is why do you WANT to work in HR having gotten your MBA?
You have seen the light! You now know where the real decision makers are, what the true drivers of a business are and who manages them (not HR). Is it really a surprise to anyone that CEOs never come up from the HR ranks? The HR value-add is debatable at best. You have no excuse not to know this!
The fact that HR does not value an MBA in their own ranks is telling you simply this: HR’s number one priority, as a SPENDER of company revenue is to justify its own existence. Buzzwords are great for this ‘diversity’, ‘branding’ etc. Phrases whose impact on a company’s bottom line will always be nebulous at best, ludicrous at worst (I once had an HR person suggest we have mixed bathrooms to ‘improve morale’. This was at a Fortune 500 company.). Anyway, HR likes to keep things fuzzy and unprovable. A number crunching MBA might attract the wrong kind of attention…..
Jon- I disagree. I’m doing my MBA right now and while I’ve certainly gotten questions from a few people about “why HR” there’s actually a surprising degree of recognition of the strategic potential of HR. The HR club here is actually a joint project of the MBA and MHR programs and one of our required classes here is OB. Also, the companies that are coming to the business school to recruit for finance, general management etc largely recognize that HR (*if done well*) is a big value-add.
Josh, I appreciate the response. I’m not looking for Kumbaya, just something that is more representative of reality. You are absolutely right that the F100 or 500 is not representative of the realities of HR everywhere, but my issue is that you chose not to represent the other side–so some of the posts filled the void. If you are going to “push the envelope” and ruffle feathers then you’ve got to expect the feedback from your readers to do the same.
Thanks for the discussion.
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