A while back I wrote a post called “What Would It Take To Get You To Work 80 Hrs Per Week?” over at The Project. The post was meant to dig into what it would take to get employees to go beyond their normal 40 hour work week, and give you that discretionary effort all of HR Pros want to get out of our workforce. What I didn’t see coming when I wrote the post was how the ROWE folks would lose their minds! For those not yet familiar with the ROWE concept – check it out here (www.gorowe.com). Safe to say ROWE advocates believe it shouldn’t be about hours, it should be about results – which I agree with. So, I’ve asked Stacey Swanson from the Culture Rx team to join me in a little conversation…
(Tim) So, Stacey – I get it should be about results – I tell my own team all the time, if you reach your goals – I could care less if you even come to work! But (oh there’s always a but!) – what about those times when the organization needs to go beyond “the goals”? How do you get your team in a ROWE environment to give discretionary effort beyond what they are measured against?
(Stacey) In a ROWE, people are given control over their time. No asking permission. No judging where a co-worker is at a particular time. That control is freeing. People will do whatever they need to in order to achieve results for an organization. They will go above and beyond because they want to see the organization succeed and personally, they don’t want to give up that control over their life. At our client sites where we’ve conducted ROWE training, employees are consistently going above and beyond – not because they’re being asked to, but because they *want* to. We believe this stems from the intrinsic motivation that surfaces when people are given…well, their lives back. The carrots and sticks approach of the past may have worked to force people to put in more *time*, but it’s not how people are wired to actually produce more – as Dan Pink states in Drive. The mixture of autonomy, mastery, and purpose – all catalyzed in a ROWE – are necessary to get the discretionary effort HR pros are looking for.
(Tim) You know this really puts me in a no-win situation – how can you argue against people “having control over their own time”?! You can’t! Everybody wants that except maybe companies who have committed to a client to produce “X” amount, but Jimmy thought it was a nice sunny day and what the heck – I’m in control of my own time… ROWE just doesn’t work in every type of environment. There are work environments where reaching a “goal” might not be enough to fulfill the commitments the organization has that day/week/month/year. So, now what? Do you go to that employee(s) and tell them – “yeah, we really like that ROWE thing! But we also like getting paid and having benefits – so for this week I’m controlling your time – I mean you’re controlling your time – just be here at 7am if you still want this job!” How do you work around those types of issues?
(Stacey) When I hear ROWE won’t work for some environments, it comes across as “not every job or every environment can focus on results.” If someone shows up at 7am every day, does that mean they are achieving their results? As an HR professional, I can tell you absolutely not. So, tie people to the outcome of the organization, get them to focus on results and they will be where they need to be to achieve those results. Does a child care center need employees to be at the child care center to care for the kids? Absolutely. Do you need to spell it out for them like they are 3? No. They get that. Treat them like adults and trust them to focus on the results. And, if they don’t, then it needs to be addressed as a performance issue. *This* is where we see organizations getting tripped up – it’s much easier to control time and say “you need to start being here from 8am to 5pm every day” than it is to say “We agreed you’d deliver X to the customer on X day at X time to keep our customer satisfaction level at X% – you didn’t deliver so let’s talk about that”. Being in control of our lives and our time doesn’t give us a free pass to not deliver…at least not if we want to keep getting a paycheck!
(Tim) Ok, it’s my blog, so I get to end this conversation! Arguing the merits of ROWE seems like I’m running in a circle – theoretically it seems like a great structure – but then why doesn’t every company in the world run under these principles? I don’t think you’ll find a person who has a higher results orientation than me, but I still would find it hard to work in a ROWE environment. But not because I don’t think I can handle it, I’m a HR Person – I know most employee CAN’T handle it! That has nothing to do with trust – it has everything to do with most people just don’t have the results orientation high enough to work in such an open environment and be successful. They want to try it, but they will fail. That seems to be the key to ROWE – not the principles – but your selection of talent that you allow to work under those principles. It’s the chicken or the egg scenario, right?
If you haven’t already – check out the team at CultureRx – Cali and Jody developed some really cool stuff, that will more than likely just frustrate you because your leadership will never allow you to use it in your environment – but the principles have definite merit. Even if you can begin to move in this direction you and your organization will be better for it!
And ROWE advocates – you can stop hating on me! You know I’m right – it just doesn’t fit your sales pitch!
I am shocked, *shocked*, that the folks at Culture Rx were reactive to a post that didn’t just praise ROWE like it was rainbows and sunshine.
“When I hear ROWE won’t work for some environments, it comes across as ‘not every job or every environment can focus on results.’”
When I hear that ROWE won’t work for some environments, I know that time and showing up is part of the result. This goes against the entire framework of ROWE (“Time isn’t a result, guys!”). The fact is they can’t admit that it is really built for the white collar, knowledge worker set and completely ignores the rest of the working population. Nobody wants their ER doctor on ROWE. Nobody wants their airline pilot (or mechanic) on ROWE.
Realistic ROWE for those people where showing up is actually part of the job is flex scheduling and time shifting. But you can’t really sell something that’s already been implemented across thousands of employers.
Tim – great post and I like the back-and-forth!
To be honest, I love the concept of ROWE – it’s a great way to resist the major time intrusions of work into our 24 hours. It’s definitely a great way to focus on top priorities and I really dig the control it gives back to everyone.
One question: what about those serendipitous water-cooler moments or brainstorming sessions? How do we make sure we keep the connections alive and active (like synapses in the brain) if everyone is free to come and go as they please?
Very good point about people’s ability to work in a ROWE. I’m sure there are a lot of people who can’t handle it. A huge part of ROWE is “no results, no work.” The way it’s supposed to work is that people who can’t hack it either figure out how to be self-motivated in a hurry, or they get fired and replaced by people who can meet their goals. (I honestly think that’s part of why it failed at OPM. It can’t work without accountability.)
But the flip side to that is that people who can’t handle a ROWE may be performing well in a really structured environment, or they may be skating on face time and “putting in hours.” I’m not sure whether ROWE causes problems so much as exposes already existing ones. (Also, there’s nothing to say that someone who does better with a regimented schedule can’t still work in the office from 8-5 Monday through Friday in a ROWE. If that’s how they get the most done, then that’s exactly what they should do.)
Alex –
I’m sure the ROWE folks have your answer – I’ll let them chime in – I’m guessing social media, team meetings that are of course optional to come to, etc. But you are right – it’s the reason I hang out with the smokers in my office – but don’t smoke – the best work conversations in the world happen at the smokers break. You get the nice little cross functional group of smokers solving the companies problems 15 minutes at a time – it’s so perfect – minus the health benefit!
T.
I think if that’s happening, then you have the wrong goals. Or at least, incomplete goals. Meeting all the organization’s commitments is pretty much the definition of “results.” So either someone hasn’t been assigned responsibility for a task they should have been, or someone made commitments they couldn’t back up. Some goals might be more fixed (get X done by Y date), and others depend on what’s coming in (reply to all customer questions within X timeframe and provide A, B, and C as requested).
Somewhere on Cali and Jody’s blog, they talked about a fire department that used response to a certain percentage of calls as their goal. Nobody knows how many fires there are going to be in a month, so you can’t show up to the first three and be “done” for the month. Instead, you have to show up to at least X% of them over the month as a whole. I think a similar model could work in other situations where the amount of work coming in is variable and fast responses are required.
ROWE also doesn’t mean “nothing is ever scheduled.” There’s a huge difference between “show up at 7 because that’s our arbitrary start time” and showing up at 7:00 because you’re giving a presentation, in person, at 8:00 and you need to make sure the room and the materials are ready. The second is totally compatible with a ROWE.
I agree that a lot of the ROWE philosophy is focused on knowledge work that can be done anywhere. That doesn’t mean it won’t work in other environments, but that it looks different. For example, ROWE has been used successfully in childcare environments. Obviously, a teacher has to be in the same place as the kids when scheduled. At the same time, a ROWE daycare wouldn’t mandate “everyone must stay for an hour after the kids leave to do paperwork.” You’d know what paperwork and planning you had to do and when it needed to be complete, but no one would care if you did it in the morning before the kids got there, or went home and worked on it outside on a nice day.
Great post Tim, I really enjoy talking about this stuff. I’m definitely a proponent of ROWE and also believe that new technologies can help to “time shift” the conversations and meetings that we are all so accustomed to now. For example, if you have a team in multiple time zones, instead of trying to schedule a meeting at weird times of the day, why can’t you use a forum style communication platform (I’m thinking Yammer or Podio or Basecamp) for everyone to chime in on? Sometimes (okay, most of the time) meetings are actually counterproductive to getting things done. Sure you can argue that not all employees or jobs would work for this type of style, but there are examples of companies proving that statement wrong every day. And they have happier and more productive employees to prove it!
KellyK –
Thanks for the all the clarification – tomorrow I’m starting ROWE at my office – and each morning at 7am I’m going to have a mandatory sales meeting at 7am and 5pm – GO ROWE!
The team is going to be so excited!
T.
Alex-
Great question! The serendipitous moments do happen in a ROWE- just maybe not face to face. It could be over an IM chat, on a phone conference, or at the water cooler. ROWE is focusing on results and not working remotely, so as Kelly commented, some may choose to work in the office as that’s where they do their best work. Each person gets to decide where they need to be each day to achieve their results.
Thanks for the great comments! Stacey
I think it’s important to consider that results aren’t just personal goals, but organizational and team goals. In some fields, coverage is a result, so you can’t see the role of ROWE as much. If I’m a physician or a nurse, and part of our results include having a certain ratio of providers to patients at all times, then we work together to make that happen. So in that way, healthcare providers are already more results-oriented than most. I DO want my ER doctor to work in a ROWE. Same thing with airline pilots, child care workers, servers at restaurants, etc.
I used to work 7:30-5 in a blue collar job, but it felt like a ROWE, because it was very clear why I was there in that location, for that time, and I had some input in the scheduling. The issue is just more pronounced in white collar jobs. If I’m not in my office, I may miss a little spontaneous collaboration now and then (…maybe), but mostly what I miss is a lot of distraction and commiseration. So, in that case, being in the office has little to do with accomplishing results.
Also, I find that people know or can figure out how they work best, or someone can help them figure it out. And if they can’t, they may be in the wrong position. I’m 100% when I’m in the office for structured work (meetings, classes, group work) and work remotely on individual/creative things. My colleague has a different style. We know this. Everyone’s different, so I think you’ll get better results by working with their strengths/styles, within reason, rather than trying to make everyone fit in the same mold.
Lacey- Great comment! Yes, everyone’s style is different and demands are different throughout life. ROWE empowers people to choose where and when they will work in order to achieve their results.
And I love your comment to not have everyone fit into the same mold. There are a lot of flexible work plans that try to do just that.
Stacey
In a ROWE, people are given control over their time. No asking permission. No judging where a co-worker is at a particular time. That control is freeing. People will do whatever they need to in order to achieve results for an organization.
Yes, that’s the ideal. That’s what you WANT to happen. But saying that happens in a ROWE, because, you know, that’s what a ROWE is all about, doesn’t magically make it so.
Of course you should manage people’s outcomes more than their processes. But that’s not an absolute statement either. Do you care if someone behaves unethically, as long as they achieve results? Of course you do!
When I hear ROWE won’t work for some environments, it comes across as “not every job or every environment can focus on results.”
When I hear someone say a ROWE isn’t just for some environments, I would point no further than ROWE’s birthplace – Best Buy. They use at Corporate, but not in their stores. I’d think their stores focus on results. But those results cannot be achieved without being in a particular place at a particular time. Which means it’s now a ROWE.
And one could even argue about the success of such an environment. Best Buys stock price and earnings have been steadily decreasing over the last five years. Is that due to a ROWE? Of course not – not entirely, at least. But if a ROWE is supposed to produce such phenomenal results, why isn’t it doing so in the company where it all started?
Chris-
You raise some points that we hear quite often at CultureRx. When an organization works with us to instill culture change, we work to get them to the ideal. And are ethics important, of course! We never said they weren’t. If a health care facility is ROWE and they take short cuts to make a profit and are closed, then they are not achieving their results.
Best Buy Corporate started operating in a ROWE in 2003. It’s been almost 10 years. ROWE is engrained int he culture. Do they face business decisions in a rocky economy just like any other retailer? Yes. Would they have better outcomes if they chose to not focus on results? Highly unlikely.
Stacey –
Hey, wait a minute on the success of Best Buy and ROWE – I think investors and executives at Best Buy would have to argue how we define success. Best Buy isn’t a financially successful company right now, and hasn’t been for a number of years – so one could easily argue ROWE is to blame. If you didn’t have people running in and out of Best willy nilly – maybe they would be in the death spiral they are currently in!
When hard times hit – any organization – communication and clarity are paramount to turn the tide. Having a ROWE environment makes this communication even more difficult – could this have led to Best Buy’s financial troubles? It’s a valid question, I think.
T
And are ethics important, of course! We never said they weren’t. If a health care facility is ROWE and they take short cuts to make a profit and are closed, then they are not achieving their results.
This strikes me as a double speak. Because what if the company is unethical and DOES make a good profit. They’re achieving their results. And in a ROWE, it seems like the focus is only on the results, not how they’re achieved, right?
I wish I had a link to share with you, but I know I’ve seen research on the importance of reward effort and not just results in performance management. I’ve also seen research that rewarding just results often DOES result in unethical behavior. ENRON is a wonderful case study on this. It’s why a balanced scorecard approach is often considered a best practice.
And is this is a tough economy? Sure. But money is still being made by plenty of companies that understand their customers needs and deliver innovative solutions. If a ROWE helps you better focus on the results, why aren’t the results being achieved at Best Buy? And if they are, why isn’t Best Buy more financially successful? I don’t think you can just blame the economy.
Again, I’m not saying ROWE is the cause of their current financial struggles, but I don’t see it helping them succeed more than their peers, either. And again, if a ROWE can work anywhere, why hasn’t it been implemented in Best Buy’s retail locations?
Finally, I’d like to say that I really appreciate that you’ve both put yourself out there, and are willingly engaging in conversation around this topic. I often find myself frustrated by what feels like circular talk from the ROWE crowd, and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think that was happening here, too. But the fact that you’re so open to dialogue is nice, so thanks!
I want to make a list of things that don’t work in every company.
1. Transparency
2. Honesty
3. Ethics
4. Whining
5. Lying
6. Having Fun
7. Snuggling
8. Eating candy
9. Efficiency
10. Candor
Nothing works in every company. Not even good stuff — like telling the truth — that should be okay everywhere.
PS – I just wanted to make a list. I don’t even care what this post is about.
Laurie – my favorite on the list is Snuggling. And I want to see a post here on why that won’t work in every company.
I really resent the “it won’t work for every employee” comments. Oh thank goodness you’re here to protect us from ourselves! Next you’ll be telling me the stove is hot and if I keep making that face it’ll stay like that.
Whether or not someone excels in a traditional work environment has NO bearing on whether they would excel in a ROWE. Maybe you should try treating people like adults and see what happens.