For those who read my stuff regularly, you know I’m not a real fan of all the generational talk that goes on in our space – “GenY’s are like this, and Baby Boomers are like that, and GenXers are something totally different…”, blah, blah, blah. It annoys me when people paint broad strokes over an entire population of people – we are in HR – we are the ones who aren’t supposed to be doing this – and yet, we see it more in our space than anywhere else. “But, Tim, there are differences and we need to understand those to manage performance effectively”, I hear what you’re saying. Bullshit. Get to know your people personally – build a relationship – then manage that person – not a persona.
But I digress, half of our staff at FOT is GenY, so let’s give them a trophy – I’m here to introduce you to a GenY professional who is self-proclaimed “Awesome” (that doesn’t fit the stereotype of GenY at all…) – Kayla Cruz – author of the Blog- Lost GenY Girl. More specifically, I’m here to talk with Kayla about a post she wrote recently: Get Bad Employees Off the Freaking Bus: Making Room For GenY. From the post:
”Here’s a question…If there was a person on the bus with a bomb attached to their chest, would you try to find them a different seat? No, you would sniper rifle their ass because they’re putting the bus and everyone else in it in danger. And that’s how it is at work when you have a bad employee. Sometimes, the only solution is to ask them to leave. Think big picture. Think about the overall good of your organization. Get rid of your poor employees and make room for people that want to add value, that want to be there.”
You like, right?!
(Tim – the GenXer) Kayla – love the message of the post, but I think you missed one thing. If I’m going to “sniper” someone’s ass off my team – which I agree needs to be done in many cases – I’m making room for the best possible talent in my organization – not just for GenY. Why do you think GenYers make the best replacement?
(Kayla – The GenYer) You know, Tim, I completely agree with you that you should be making room for the best talent, not just Gen Y. It’s just that the most talented people I know have the following: vision, drive, an obsession with being the best, an interest in making a difference, and an optimistic attitude. GenYers bring with them to the workforce this hunger and this enthusiasm to start their careers. They’re excited about the future, they want to make something of themselves, and most importantly, they haven’t yet been disillusioned by corporate BS. They spend four (and in some cases 5, 7, or 9) years in college getting this wonderfully useless piece of paper called a degree and are anxious to put it to use. Why? Because it would certainly be tragic to think that the amount of work they’ve done has been for nothing. So they’re ready to get started and that energy in and of itself set them apart from more experienced workers.
(Tim) Kayla, Kayla, Kayla – youth is wasted on the young! Energy and a piece of paper aren’t enough to separate you from your more experienced workers – that would be experience – which you get from well working crappy, entry level jobs – LIKE WE DID! We (the old farts) didn’t start out as managers in high paying, cushy jobs – we started out waiting on some old fart who we didn’t think knew what they were talking about. We put in our time (which is more than a few months) and worked our way into a position where the more experienced workers – respected our abilities and viewed us a capable players. It’s not corporate BS – it’s life! For every 22 year old CEO – there are 22,000 62 year old CEOs – that’s reality. They’re CEO because they know more, they’ve seen more and quite frankly they’re better than some kid coming out of college. One question I have for you: Do you think GenXers and Baby Boomers don’t have vision, drive, obsession with being the best, interest in making a difference and a positive attitude?
(Kayla) Hah! I thought we weren’t stereotyping? To answer your question, some of them do. Others don’t. I think at the end of the day, the point that Gen Y is trying to make is that management needs to quit looking at all GenYers as only capable of making copies. Truly innovative PEOPLE, old and young alike, aren’t going to sit around wasting their time at crappy entry level jobs. ESPECIALLY given the number of entrepreneurial opportunities available to them. So instead they’re going to say, “F this. I’m out of here” and just like that, there goes talent that could have been used to better your organization. And who’s going to benefit here? The organizations that look beyond how long we’ve been on this planet. And in regards to experience, it’s been MY experience that HR wrongly associates years in the workforce with the ability to lead others. You can have 40 years of experience in your field, be promoted to management, and SUCK as a leader. Likewise, you can be 25 or 30 or even 17 and possess a firm understanding of what it takes to be successful. Talent, ability, leadership potential, all of those things have one thing in common. They have NOTHING to do with age.
(Tim) You said the magic word “POTENTIAL”! You are right, age has nothing to do with potential. The problem is many of us HR Pros aren’t hiring potential, we are hiring proven talent, proven ability and proven leadership – which you only get through experience – which normally comes with time (age). I do agree with you that HR Pros/leaders need to do more to ensure we are building our future leaders and putting them into situations that let us see if their potential can be reached. But, it’s harder than it looks – we are asked to run lean, do more with less, etc. Providing opportunities for everyone is a difficult task.
I love Kayla’s blinded passion for her generation! Check out her blog Lost GenY Girl and let us know how you feel on this subject in the comments.
Tim, I came over from Kayla’s blog. I’m 55, a college student and grandmother, and am reading Kayla to get a feel of how Gen Yers truly think in business. She’s candid, clearly adept in verbal communication, and I love her spunk and energy; however, you are correct when you say spunk and energy cannot substitute for experience and life lessons. But, you can’t tell them that! Give them time, and they’ll become wiser with age – as we did.
Also, if Gen Y wants a true chance at the corp world, they should start their own thing. Now, that’s a life lesson (huge experience) waiting to happen!
Good post.
Debbie,
Thanks for taking the time to read the post and thank you for the kind words. I enjoyed this exchange with Tim because it allowed us to get a conversation going about something that will continue to be an issue for HR professionals in the years to come. Yes, young professionals want opportunities and a lot of them are very talented. The message that we’re trying to send here is that it’s wrong to discredit us just because we only have a few years of experience. Perhaps employers can view this inexperience as an asset? Do you think there might be any value in a fresh perspective? I think these are things to think about. Wisdom does come with age, you’re right. That’s why I have so much respect for older individuals that are willing to pass on this wisdom. We just want a chance to learn. We just want a fair shot. And yes, perhaps one of the best opportunities for GenY to gain expereience is through starting their own business. That’s the point I make. These talented young individuals, when they are not given the opportunity to do valuable work at an organization, do their own thing. And in doing that, a company loses out on that talent. If an organization wants the best people, they have to give them the opportunity to do valuable work. Not just adhere to this old fashioned “you HAVE to start off filing and making copies because that’s what I did” mentality. That’s just dumb. Debbie, I love your attitude towards us young workers. It’s refreshing. Thanks again for reading!
Interesting discussion. I seem to remember this same topic coming up when I graduated from college almost 20 years ago. Here’s an idea: Incorporate a mentoring program where you have young, energetic, entrepreneurial graduates paired with older, experienced, been-around-the-block leaders who are open to sharing their knowledge and experience so that the company/business can take advantage of both. Let’s create win-win situations where we do reward the talented people Kayla describes as: “the most talented people I know have the following: vision, drive, an obsession with being the best, an interest in making a difference, and an optimistic attitude.”
I like the idea of not painting broad strokes over generational groups and I do agree that each person needs to be known as a person, but the practical matter is, GenY was born into a much different world than Boomers. Our knowledge base is doubling every 2 years now. Boomers weren’t using laptops and smart phones when they were 8 years old. Companies need to know how to integrate societal changes (which are often seen as generational) into their workplace.
This is the kind of dialogue we need to keep having. Thanks for sharing.
Greg,
Thanks for the comment! You know, it seems to me that this is not a new concept. People that I’ve connected with tell me the same thing…”I remember this same topic coming up when I graduated from college”. I think your idea is great! Mentoring programs are what us young professionals want. I don’t think we’re asking for a lot by wanting to learn more. Since when, is this desire to become more knowledgeable a bad thing? More people need to think like you do, focusing on creating a Win-Win situation. I don’t think the idea is too far-fetched. And yes, I agree…People need to be understood as individuals. There ARE talented young professionals. So let’s not miss opportunities to give them worthwhile work. Looking forward to continuing this dialouge that I agree, we need to keep having.
Have a great day!
So Kayla thinks that she has so much talent and know-how that they get to skip right over the entry-level jobs and begin their careers as middle-management? Kayla, I don’t buy into the generational differences mythology so I won’t try to guess why your GenY cohort is having a hard time securing employment. But I will tell you why *you* aren’t getting job offers: it’s because you think that the time and energy you spent in college is somehow more special and significant than the time any GenX or BabyBoomer spent in college just before they started their careers with entry-level positions. No employer of substance is going to hire some fresh-faced college graduate with no corporate experience and no operational knowledge to manage a business function. So either apply for the entry-level jobs that you *are* qualified for, or take your entrepreneurial spirit and start your own business so you can develop your mid-career skills.
Oh dear Lord. Let me get up and stretch before I respond.
First of all, Sonya, I hope you’re having a lovely day.
Let me clarify…No one here is talking about beginning careers in middle management. The issue of money is also not brought up. Because it’s not an issue. For the most part, young professionals are okay with entry level salaries, we just don’t want to be stuck behind a copy machine for 8 hours a day. I think that’s fair. As for my employment status, I think I’m doing okay at the moment, but thank you for your kind, supportive, and certainly uplifting words. However, given that by 2025, 75% of the workforce will consist of GenY workers, I think that employers of substance do need to be assessing their talent management strategies. It’s definitely something that needs to be discussed. Because like you mentioned, and as I have already addressed in a previous comment, these young professionals will take their entrepreneurial spirit and start their own businesses. But if an individual has the capacity to do that, wouldn’t you as an employer want them on your team? How dumb would it be to say “You know what, you’re super talented. You would be so valuable to our organization. Oh, but you’re just out of college. Come back to me in 7 years when you have more expereience.” *Newsflash* that person will either be working for themselves or working at your competitor. Epic Fail.
Again, I’m not saying that everyone needs to agree with what I say. I’m simply voicing my opinion and those of other young professionals. It’s just a perspective to consider.
Someone told me the other day that there are two kinds of leaders…
Those that went through a really tough time to get where they are and therefore want to MAKE SURE that everyone else has to suffer their way to the top.
And then there are others that went through a really tough time to get where they are at and want to make it easier for others so that they do not have to suffer as much.
Young professionals want to work for the latter. Employers that embrace that attitude will be much likelier to attain top talent in their industry.
Just something to think about.
“Truly innovative PEOPLE, old and young alike, aren’t going to sit around wasting their time at crappy entry level jobs”
These are your words from the interview, are they not? Snce you clearly consider yourself one of those innovative people, should I not have inferred that you believe you have the right to skip over the entry-level work?
“How dumb would it be to say “You know what, you’re super talented. You would be so valuable to our organization. Oh, but you’re just out of college. Come back to me in 7 years when you have more expereience.”
I didn’t say that I wouldn’t want to hire a super-talented, innovative individual with no experience. I’d be happy to hire that individual to work for my company where they fit best. More than likely, if they have no experience, that’s going to be an entry-level job. If they can perform, produce *and* remain innovative and super-talented, then they’ll get promoted, and maybe fast-tracked. But innovation, vision, and energy are not skills. I won’t hire a person who can’t demonstrate that they have the skills to do a job.
As someone mentioned above, vision, innovation, energy, and enthusiasm are not unique to GenY. These are traits that characterize people starting a new career. Sure you might think that GenY brings *more* of those traits than any other generation, but you’d be wrong. The research–the real academic research that does more than share anecdotal incidents and observations–show that all generations approach their work with the same verve and flare when they first enter a field and that attitudes change over time due to life changes and such. I’m sorry Kayla, but if you want to work for me and you have no experience, you’ll have to start at the bottom. I don’t want someone who thinks that kind of work is beneath them to work for me. So I have no problem with hordes of people going off and starting their own businesses. If it works for them, then my guess is that their entrepreneurial predispositions would have led them in that direction sooner or later. If it doesn’t work for them, I hope that they would have learned the valuable lessons and business skills they’ll need to come back to corporate work.
I agree that GenYers bring “vision, drive, an obsession with being the best, an interest in making a difference, and an optimistic attitude.” However, this does not necessarily translate into the ability to make utilize these traits in managing others. In my organization, we promoted a GenYer with all of these traits to managing a department of other GenYers. Since this employee had not had enough experience working with others and developing a team, that department became very disfunctional. Thre years later, that manager is the only member of the department still working in that department. My organization has a turn over of about 5% per year and that department had a turnover of 150% per year. Once exit interviews revealed that there was a problem with the manager we were able to make some changes. The GenYer is very talented and passionate and we were able to retain him. A new manager (GenXer) was hired, and after a period of adjustment, the GenYer is thriving in his employment. The GenXer is successfully mentoring the GenYer and I believe the GenYer will be ready for management responsibilities in a few years. It takes time to gain experience and learn from the leadership styles of others in order to successfully develop your potential.
Pamela,
All fair and valid points. Perhaps we can begin training young professionals on leadership/management principles at an earlier time? I’ve heard of companies implementing Emerging Leadership programs and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I’m glad that everything worked well after the change in management and I’m glad the employee is being mentored. However, please note that the possibility existed that the GenXer hired as a manager could have not been any better. I’ve encountered many individuals with sometimes 40+ years of expereince that are not fit for leadership roles. But thank you, for continuing this conversation. Great thoughts.
Hey Tim. Hire her…..if you haven’t already.
Clearly she has some drive and you did say you need to groom and educate people to grow skill and talent (I realize not in those exact words) and clearly you think she’s got something between the pipes otherwise you wouldn’t feature her here.
Having said that and as you mentioned Kayla, not all people are cut out for leadership. The ones that are lead by example and learn the ropes with what Tim so eloquently posited as time. Unfortunately, like it or not, it takes a lot of time to get good. That and hard work both of which you seem to have and be willing to do. Put me in coach can be replaced with show initaitive and take the bull by the horns. Ask for forgivness and not permission. It worked for me. it can work for you.
Nicely done all!
Hahahaha lol Thanks, Ralph! Agreed, not all people are cut out for leadership positions and I think that it’s a huge mistake that management makes sometimes…putting employees in leadership positions simply because they’ve been working within their field for 10+ years. That alone doesn’t make them qualified to lead others. And yes, I understand that time is key. I know that most people reading this probably assume that I’m some kind of idiot that thinks she knows everything. I’m not. And no, I don’t think I know everything. But I want to learn from those more experienced than me, in time. I think a lot of young professionals feel the same way. There are many young professionals that are willing to learn. But while some “leaders” are willing to teach and help us out, others want to hold us back.
I like that though…”ask for forgiveness and not permission”. I have a feeling I’ll be asking for forgiveness quite often…
Thanks again for your input and kind words!
Hi, came over from Kayla’s site. As has already been said this is not a new problem and each generation has faced this and there is no easy answer. College or university gives knowledge but wisdom is how to use this knowledge and this comes from experience… However, education institutions could help more by putting more vocational skills in their curriculum with practical work experience included. For students /graduates then you could volunteer at charities etc and get experience managing and running teams so that you have already built up experience towards the job you want. Companies that want to retain talent and cut down on the cost of bringing in external talent should have a robust talent programme with mentoring, shadowing, leadership programmes and giving the talent a chance to run projects over and above their job description. A clear line of sight on how to progress up the ladder should also be visible e.g. Modern managerial apprenticeships
Martin,
Excellent ideas! I agree with you 100% that colleges can assist us better by helping us gain more practical experience in our education. And yes, absolutely. Companies that will be successful in the future will pay more attention to their human capital and will incorporate a “robust talent program”. I’m a huge advocate of mentoring, shadowing, and leadership programs for employees. Certainly, if organizations would like to recruit top talent, these are all things that should be incorporated into the company’s human resources initiatives. Thanks for your input!
Kayla,
This is an excellent suggestion; however, GenY can gain much experience in leadership roles in the non-profit world, i.e. serving on city council committees (planning and zoning commission, library board, etc.), community clubs, food banks, and so on. This type of experience is very valuable and looks good on the resume. Consider donating time away from the office, and I think you’ll find a whole new world that offers lots of great opportunities.
Last I checked….A Gen Y guy named, Zuckerberg, invented Facebook. But wait, didn’t Gen X invent the internet? Don’t really care what generation you are. Just have drive, passion and believe in why you do what you do. Oh yeah, have fun doing it too. The rest will work out.
A gen Xer.
YES! Love this. “Don’t really care what generation you are. Just have drive, passion, and believe in why you do what you do. Oh yeah, and have fun doing it too. The rest will work out.” Couldn’t have said it better. Thanks!!
I can’t escape the fact that as a boomer I look at a lot of this and just don’t get it. There are performers, strong performers, weak performers and non-performers. I love working with people in the first two groups, and loathe working with those in the last two. Regardless of age.
So I’ll just assume “old fart” is a term for non-performers that are getting in the way of others’ development.
You’ll miss us when we’re all gone.
Tim G
Tim,
Haha we’ll certainly miss those of you that weren’t so mean to us younger people. But yes, absolutely. Companies should focus on recruiting and retaining performers and strong performers, like you said. Those are the people that I would definitely want to work with. The non-performers need to go. Thanks for your thoughts!
I agree with you both. (How’s that for taking a stand?), but I agree with Kayla a little more. Experience and wisdom is very important in the workplace and should be rewarded–to a point. Experience also blinds you to what you don’t know. Gen Y’rs (and beyond) are impatient with those of us who run companies because they know and can see things that we can’t. And we’re not providing any avenues for them to tell us. ‘Do your time in an entry level position until I respect you enough to listen to you’ just doesn’t cut it. Look at the most recent really successful companies. They were started, and for the most part are run, by Gen Y’rs who didn’t follow the rules, didn’t sit and wait their turn gaining experience at the feet of the wise. It just doesn’t work that way–any more. Yeah, it worked that way for us, and we therefore apply those rules to our thinking. But things have changed. Today’s 62 year old, wise, experienced CEOs would do well to create channels in their companies to learn from their young employees. Things are moving too fast for us Baby Boomers to keep up with without some intelligent help.
I’ve read Kayla’s posts. What she is asking for is to be heard. She is asking to be appreciated for what she brings to the table. We would be “wise” to do that. She, and her colleagues, won’t wait all that much longer. They’ll go out and start their own companies instead of lending their talent to ours. And they sure won’t be hiring us baby boomers for our wisdom.
The thing is that we all bring something to the table that can make organizations better. We need to figure out ways to break the old rules and make that happen. I know of at least one Fortune 15 company that pairs senior executives with newly hired employees for the newbies to mentor the executives in social media–what it is, how you use it, how young people use it, think about it, etc. These relationships are extremely important on both sides–it opens new world views for both.
I appreciate both of you for this dialogue.
jo
Jo,
I love that…”experience also blinds you to what you don’t know”. Very good point. Nothing good comes from being closed minded. You provide very valuable input. Thanks for this. Yes, I think you’re right. Things have changed and those that are willing to embrace new ideas will be the most successful. So glad that you get it.
I completely agree with Karla. GenY workers are fluid in a language of modernity in a way GenXers aren’t. They grew up in a different time, have a different perspective on work and business that more closely reflects reality. Many of them aren’t getting the chances they deserve due to the recession preventing attrition. Hopefully that will change soon. Its not just about drive and hunger, its about understanding a world differently than their GenX cohorts. I teach in a professional masters program that has a mix of GenX and GenY can you can see the difference quite starkly. GenX is more micro focused – how does situation X affect us, affect our company, what’s the response. GenY is more sytemically focused…how does situation x affect the big picture, what are the reactions of all major players, how does that change the landscape? Its interesting because GenY grew up in a more networked worrld. There was no cold war dichotomy mentality, lean production was fact not theory, internet applications are engrained in them like a fluency – so many things that GenY knows by instinct, GenX has to learn. That’s my anec-data anyway. Mileage will vary. But if I was to engage in statistically discriminationg against candidates for a position, I’d take GenY anyday.
Hey, Chris!
Thanks so much for taking the time to read and comment. You rock! Thanks for your input and for understanding that GenY does bring something to the table
I don’t think all Gen Y’rs come into the work force gung ho with a vision to challenge the process. I think employers need to do a better job of understanding the people they’re putting on the bus. I have a process called Job Benchmarking that does just that. Here’s a recent post http://endgamebusiness.com/blog/job-matching-the-key-to-superior-performance/
I’m all for providing more Leadership training for Gen Y. I can’t tell you how many companies put people of all generations into Leadership programs without any sustainable impact. Why? There’s no follow up. For Leadership programs to work, the employee needs to practice what they’ve learned.
So whether it’s Gen Y, X, Boomers, Traditional or up and coming Linksters, management needs to set the example of what’s expected from the new hires. If it’s Leadership training, do it right and follow through.
Hi Steve!
You make some great points here! You’re absolutely right when you say that many of these leadership programs have no sustainable impact due to lack of follow-up. Management does need to set the example and hold people accountable for practicing what they have learned.
Thanks for your thoughts!
I completely agree with your statement that not everyone is meant to be a leader. Way too many people who have great experience are then promoted into a people management role. Unfortunately just because you’re great at sales or crunching numbers doesn’t mean you’re great at managing people. Some people are just natural born leaders….no matter what generation. With a little guidance and experience (or a mentoring program as another commenter mentioned) a Gen Yer can and should be given the opportunity to manage a process or a team of people.
I also think part of that problem is companies run so lean now a days that a mentoring program isn’t even a feasible idea. Too much money & not enough people to put the program together, etc… There is always an excuse if it’s not something that can be directly linked to the bottom dollar (although top talent is most certainly indirectly linked to it). Sigh, the woes of corporate culture!
Katie,
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. Yes,..unfortunately, in my experience I’ve seen way too many professionals promoted to leadership positions when they are not fit to be in those positions. You can be great at what you do…you can be a genius even and that’s wonderful. Keep doing it. But management is not for everyone and that’s okay. And yes, it’s sad that mentoring programs are not usually put high on the priority list due to finances. But they should be. Because if you don’t have the right people working for you, that will definitely affect your bottom dollar.
Great thoughts!
I think back to when I was in my early twenties, in my first job, and think about just how GREEN I really was. Only with time and experience did I develop and add more value. Yet, at the time I didn’t realize how green I was; only in hindsight. And I did work crappy entry level HR jobs, one which included a front-runner for the world’s most horribles bosses contest (used to cry on my way to work some days yet I stuck it out five years at this place because I knew I needed that experience to move onto my next role). There’s just no replacement for experience; put your enthusiasm into “nose to the grind stone” and work your butt off to earn your stripes. Agreed, get rid of your poor employees regardless of the generation; they come from all of the generations. But only after they’ve been given the opportunity to get their act together; I want to help you out or I want to help you out approach.
I kinda go along with Ralph in that Kayla needs some grooming as this whole thing is likely less about GenY’ers in a GenX and boomer world, and more about Kayla, restless and eager new employee. In my humble “management” (forget boomer or GenX or any other classification at this point) opinion, Kayla needs challenging responsibility and a lot of direction (not supervision). This is NOT to suggest that she needs to be turned into office prima donna with responsibility.. but rather specific responsibility that falls in line with the needs of the company. As Ralph said.. she has drive, but it is untapped. A manager she is not, but she can communicate… and she certainly has an elementary written charisma to get everyone in here commenting about her posts, albeit she doesn’t totally know what to do with that “power”. Her college suggests she has a measure of attentive discipline toward job completion. She’s had a bad early employment experience with sexual harrassment (from what I’ve read in her posts) and this has VERY understandably made her a little wary and apprehensive regarding trust and authority, which might extend a little to her relationship with her work associates and superiors. I am guessing that she can be a team player… but so far the team is not convinced that she should play (thus is the way of group dynamics). It’s very likely her current position is not using her skill set all that effectively but then again if she’s new to the workforce then her skill set might need some refining before it becomes more apparent. There’s a difference between being restless and being eager; one might suggest you’re not happy, while the other suggests you’re anxious to get going. I sense both are at play here.
Anyway, Kayla…. whether what I’ve just stated above is fact or fantasy, it is opinion cultivated from experience and education.. and, yes, how many times I’ve been flung around the sun (that’s called, age). One more thing… it seems a fair number of people in here care enough to bother to say anything to you, one way or the other. You might want to consider that prior to your next tissy-fit about “bad” comments… either in the blog world or real life.